Forums - Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Show all 21 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fighting Game Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1331) Posted by 007-373-5963 on 01:15:2001 08:28 AM: Seems like a lot of the new school players (especially those rude 3rd Strike players) don't understand why ST is still a tournament game. The main argument that you always here is that there are no more ST machines around to even practice on which is a very valid argument. However, even if your arcade did have it, chances are you wouldn't be able to pick it up. It is one of those games that if you weren't around for, it is really hard to learn. Chinatown Fair has a ST machine and you haven't seen Eddie Lee place in any ST tournaments. Sega just recently re-released Super Turbo for Dreamcast in Japan. The game originally came out in 1994. There must be some reason behind this. America obviously isn't the only country that has people who believe Super Turbo is the best Street Fighter. A lot of the players who play ST also don't play many other games. Or if they do, almost none of the play marvel games. Besides the obvious overlap of Valle, Choi, Watson, I can't think of many other players that excel at Super Turbo and excel at other games. I think Super Turbo should continue to be in american Street Fighter Tournaments until the nubmers start to dwindle down like those of 3rd Strike and Alpha 2. Until then - enjoy perfection. "Hey! Is this kid a joke? Where's the real challenger" Posted by GrimReap3r on 01:15:2001 09:13 AM: tell someone who cares Posted by SSF2T on 01:15:2001 09:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by 007-373-5963: Seems like a lot of the new school players (especially those rude 3rd Strike players) don't understand why ST is still a tournament game. The main argument that you always here is that there are no more ST machines around to even practice on which is a very valid argument. However, even if your arcade did have it, chances are you wouldn't be able to pick it up. It is one of those games that if you weren't around for, it is really hard to learn. Chinatown Fair has a ST machine and you haven't seen Eddie Lee place in any ST tournaments. Sega just recently re-released Super Turbo for Dreamcast in Japan. The game originally came out in 1994. There must be some reason behind this. America obviously isn't the only country that has people who believe Super Turbo is the best Street Fighter. A lot of the players who play ST also don't play many other games. Or if they do, almost none of the play marvel games. Besides the obvious overlap of Valle, Choi, Watson, I can't think of many other players that excel at Super Turbo and excel at other games. I think Super Turbo should continue to be in american Street Fighter Tournaments until the nubmers start to dwindle down like those of 3rd Strike and Alpha 2. Until then - enjoy perfection. "Hey! Is this kid a joke? Where's the real challenger" Well atleast this one topic which you and I can agree upon. Posted by camoon on 01:15:2001 11:05 AM: Agreed. SSF2T is still a classic. I think it has been pointed out elsewhere, that every subsequent game has added something that worsened the game play. While I am a SF3 advocate, I also think it is far enough from SF2 to justify retaining SSF2T as a standard. Honestly, as good as the alpha games are, they do not replace the SF2 games. For me, alpha 3, though an awesome game, is far from ideal with the ability to recover from an attack (like an uppercut) and strike the opponent back. There also more subtle differences that leave me wishing I still had a copy of SSF2T laying around. I'm kind of suprised people don't play this at tournaments. Posted by Voodoo on 01:15:2001 12:24 PM: I always assumed ST was still a tournament game because it was the first to have "supers" and that it didn't have any fancy tricks too it (partners, parries, isms, etc). ~v00 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://home.earthlink.net/~jamescontreras/c-today.gif Posted by Bezerka on 01:15:2001 04:36 PM: Super Turbo is the greatest street fighter game ever cause it was the first to have Akuma! Posted by Demon_Drake on 01:16:2001 02:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by camoon: For me, alpha 3, though an awesome game, is far from ideal with the ability to recover from an attack (like an uppercut) and strike the opponent back. There also more subtle differences that leave me wishing I still had a copy of SSF2T laying around. This is one of the things that irks me about Alpha 3, too; You land a hit, and you get *punished* for landing it. It reminds me of the Alpha Counters of previous Street Fighters, and the ability of some fighters to hit you even *after* you land a blow, just because your recovery is too long for you to do anything about it. The problems are even worse than this, though, in the air recovery system; It kills the *strategy* aspect of the game. It used to be that one character would adopt a certain strategy for keeping one opponent back and the other would adopt a strategy for getting in and it created a game of out-anticipating your opponent and getting in, or avoiding getting hit. Now it's gone, and even if you hit your opponent out of the air, he can just recover and hit you and get right back in again. Where's the skill in this? There just doesn't seem to be as much skill, as much strategy, as much *thinking* as there was in previous Street Fighters, when you were trying to get past an opponent's defenses or avoid effectively an opponent's assaults. The game seems cheapened now. That fine game of defense strategy vs. offensive strategy is gone, replaced by mindless attempts to save yourself from being hit. The mind is gone. Posted by Shin Kyo on 01:16:2001 04:48 AM: quote: The game seems cheapened now. That fine game of defense strategy vs. offensive strategy is gone, replaced by mindless attempts to save yourself from being hit. The mind is gone well..I wouldn't go as far as to saying the game now are cheapened...but.. what you said was very true...the older games revolve around alot of mind games...sorta like a faster paced chess game....but in current games..with all the air-blocks, parry, assists, Variable counters, strikers...etc...some of the thinking element involved with strategy are gone..replaced with quick reflexes or simply all out craziless.... I am not saying this is bad by all means...but sometime...this is why playing some older games, such as, SSF2X, seem fresh! and this is why I love CvS so much..because it is sorta a "back-to-the-basic" kinda game... ---------- http://www.crosswinds.net/~vincentc/kofKyoAnimated5.gif ---------- "Ore no...kachi da!" Posted by GYL on 01:16:2001 05:34 AM: well guys,i seriously hope ST continues to get more and more new comp to join it's already huge ranks.as a og ST player myself,i am very happy to see more ppl picking up the game and discovering it's greatness and why it is still played in american and japanese tournaments.ST is just the greatest.ggpo. they can take our lives,but they can never take our freedom....William Wallace Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:16:2001 09:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by Voodoo: I always assumed ST was still a tournament game because it was the first to have "supers" and that it didn't have any fancy tricks too it (partners, parries, isms, etc). ~v00 Nice sig! Who did it? Posted by SUN CiTy KinG on 01:16:2001 10:14 PM: You know it's a fun game it is STreet Fighter afterall. Someone said it's too hard of a game to pick up for the new schoolers?? It's not that it's hard it's that all these new school folk have learned differently, alpha 3, and street fighter III you kind of watch what the people are doing the whole time if they jump in you have to wait till you see something to hit it you can't just uppercut cause they'll block or parry, you have to actually see the attack, you don't just attack cause there in the air. I learned the game along time ago and played it recently and although fun I was confused as hell, just not being able to react to moves like, Bison's psyco crusher, and HOndas torpedo was so damn weird. It seems like you have to flash kick, uppercut, or tiger uppercut the instant it comes out, instead of hitting it when there close enough to get hit. It's a good game but, as far as the best ever and the mind being gone from all others, I think thats old school propaganda from the old schoolers who would like to stay on top at something. Good players can make the transition. Watts may talk shit but, he's proven he's got game... Posted by Voodoo on 01:16:2001 10:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by Kelomaniac: Nice sig! Who did it? Your's truely. It's a little big though (~80k)...gotta see if I can hack down the size. ~v00 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://home.earthlink.net/~jamescontreras/c-today.gif Posted by JumpsuitJesse on 01:16:2001 11:59 PM: I don't agree that ST is a game kept in tournament play so that old skoolers can have something they are good at. There are many reasons why ST is still regarded as the best Street Fighter game ever. Many of you (and not so many of you) can remember when SF2 The World Warrior hit the arcade scene and sent fighting games to the forefront of head to head competition. Everyone loved it and several upgrades were made to keep the the game as balanced as possible. I personally believe that Capcom should have skipped Super Street Fighter 2 and should have gone to Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo(or just called Street Fighter X)...but anyways... Super Turbo is the embodiment of Street Fighter. It is the basis of everything we play today...yes, even the VS games. This is a game that serves as the foundation of all the Street Fighter games. Notice how everygame after that had even bigger flaws that often broke the game...but not ST. ST is about as pure as Street Fighter can get next to playing Street Fighter 2 Turbo Hyper Fighting... ST introduced us to faster gameplay, Akuma, Supers, juggles, and a variety of fighters(new and old skool)with strenghts and weaknesses. It is this diversity that makes the game so great because you can never master a fighter enough in that game. Just when you think you have mastered them along comes another person who tops you and plays a different strategy. I ultimately think that it's definitely a thinkers game because each match has to be won with strategy coupled with experience and reflexes. I have 3 younger brothers who knew nothing about SF and I got them started by playing Super Turbo...once they learned it all other SF games were a breeze to learn because it is the best presentation of a fighting engine that we have all come to know and love. It served as a BASICS course to Street Fighter world and it does an excellent job in doing just that. Out of all the "old" versions of Street Fighter 2, ST was the best....and I see it as the very root of all great capcom fighting games. True, new skool players are turned off because ST is a hard game to learn but it gets better and better each time you play it because of the mind games and strategy involved...the match possibilities are almost infinite. Even to this very day players have not mastered it because every opponent, every challenge, every match is so complex that it almost boggles the mind when you think about it. Maybe old skoolers don't like what Capcom has offered since then...maybe we feel that it is the best fighting game Capcom has ever made and can't get enough of it. I just hope that it continues to be in tournaments simply because it is the best fighting game on the planet IMO. JumpsuitJesse "My style?? You can call it the art of fighting without fighting..." Bruce Lee: Enter the Dragon [This message has been edited by JumpsuitJesse (edited 01-16-2001).] Posted by Kelomaniac on 01:17:2001 12:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by Voodoo: Your's truely. It's a little big though (~80k)...gotta see if I can hack down the size. What did you use? I'm trying to learn Flash 5.0but is a bitch!! Posted by SUN CiTy KinG on 01:18:2001 12:00 AM: JuMP Suit: I think most people honestly learned more about street Fighter from WW and CE. ST is Fun but, isn't all sort of about matcheups. ARe matchups a huge skill thing. I mean i feel I can take down all shotos and SAgat with Blanka it just works. But Honda beats Blanka with his torpedo 100 hands chip easily. Balrog Was always good way good but, I only saw how good when watts you used him. I don't even know what i'm talking about now. But I think Your opinion is a bit whacky cause as good as it is, Most people mastered it years ago and aren't still being boggeled by matcheups that occured before and just went aroundin a big circle... Posted by Shinobi on 02:17:2001 03:52 AM: Classic are Clasic, but.....tornaments....u need play all sf !!!!!!!!! Posted by G_Cube on 02:17:2001 04:05 AM: So I guess it's true when they say "They don't make them like they used to". That's why I never sell my old consoles, they're surprisingly fun if you go back and play on them. http://www2.nintendo.com/spaceworld/nintendo.gif lead, others struggle to follow... Posted by Evenflow80 on 02:17:2001 08:37 AM: "More isnt always better". I agree 100% with all the people here. While I prefer SFII Turbo more than Super Turbo, I have to admit, I miss the old school games. One of the main reasons I disliked Alpha 3 is because Capcom went overboard with everything, there are a million things happening all at once. I miss the simplicity of SFII. Even though I love 3rd Strike and consider it the best SF ever, I have to admit sometimes when playing a back and forth game with an expert, I miss the old day of easy combos and relative sanity of the old games. In SFIII, getting parried by someone is always a concern, in alpha 3, your always worried about being Alpha countered, or that your opponent will tech your throw, or that he will recover in mid air and hit you on his way down, or that he will air block, the list gone on and on. Still, I am not advocating going back to the days of SFII, just to the big companies, slow down a bit!!! Posted by camoon on 02:17:2001 10:15 AM: SSF2T revisited: OK, I got my PSX running again and found SSF2T at a pawn shop for $18. Certainly was worth it, but felt I'd share a few thoughts on my return to this classic. SSF2T is a great game, but let's not totally deify it. The game is a long way from balanced--Zangief and Vega are especially powerful, while other characters seem really weak (Sagat). Some of the characters are also pretty much big piles of garbage (DJ, T.Hawk--DJ is actually be pretty decent in SFA3, but he's junk here.) Guile still completely owns the game--I'm not saying he can't be beaten, but in retrospect, Guile was always too powerful in SF2. In retrospect, I am both enjoying this game and SF3. I really think SF3 is a more balanced game than SF2, and I can't find anything that would really lead me to make out SSF2T as the 'perfect' game, and all subsequent games are flawed in some inherent way. From all I could see, there is no SF game you can't pick apart and find problems with--SSF2T being no exception. I am really happy to have this game back in my collection, but I am honestly starting to think that SF3 has some deeper game play to it. Well, I'll be playing both of 'em, and anything else is just picking straws. Posted by Puffy on 02:17:2001 03:39 PM: jumpsuitjesse = right ... super turbo is definitely the best fighting game ever released... too bad its old... and alot newcomers can't appreciate it nearly as much as the newer games out there... (sigh... alot of the things you said can also apply to quake1...) http://www.geocities.com/heyfriez/_puffy/puff_puffy2.gif Posted by FuguTabetai on 03:20:2001 01:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by camoon: SSF2T revisited: (snip) SSF2T is a great game, but let's not totally deify it. The game is a long way from balanced--Zangief and Vega are especially powerful, while other characters seem really weak (Sagat). Some of the characters are also pretty much big piles of garbage (DJ, T.Hawk--DJ is actually be pretty decent in SFA3, but he's junk here.) Guile still completely owns the game--I'm not saying he can't be beaten, but in retrospect, Guile was always too powerful in SF2. One of the best things about SSF2T is that there are matchups in favor of some characters. But all of the characters can be played well enough to be good. And you are so wrong about DJ. He was always ranked in the top of the top tier by the Japanese. THawk is also much better than many people think. He was just never played much here; that doesn't mean that he's a weak character. I'd even argue that THawk has a slight advantage over Guile (who "owns the game".) Not that it matters, me posting this on what looks like a dead thread, but... All times are GMT. The time now is 10:35 PM. Show all 21 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.